Note from the author:
Be sure to read the comment at the bottom. I certainly agree with points raised there.
QUESTION: This may be more a question of ethics than anything else. I’d like to quote Amazon’s “Guidelines” here and then ask my question:
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New: Just like it sounds. A brand-new, unused, unread copy in perfect condition.
Like New: An apparently unread copy in perfect condition. Dust cover is intact, with no nicks or tears. Spine has no signs of creasing. Pages are clean and are not marred by notes or folds of any kind. Book may contain a remainder mark on an outside edge but this should be noted in listing comments.
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So let’s say you buy 100 books from a wholesaler and it turns out that 60 of them have remainder marks but 40 have no marks at all. From the above guidelines, the 60 with the marks would fall under the “Used: Like New” category. But the 40 without the marks could be listed as “New” right?
I think what I’m asking here is… how does Amazon define the words “brand-new” and “unused”? If a book sits on a Barnes & Noble shelf…. waiting to be sold… and it never happens… does that constitute “used” or something less than “brand-new”???
ANSWER: This has been a gray area as long as I can remember. Some booksellers believe that any book that has been resold (not sold at retail, but simply traded within the book industry) must be described as “Used.” Even if the book has never been touched by human hands since it was taken off the printing press, and has remained in the same carton forever, and is in brand-new, pristine condition without a remainder mark. (Personally, I take the position that a book that appears brand new is, in fact, “New.”)
I do recall that a few years ago Amazon added to their policy on “New” versus “Used, Like New”, indicating that anything with a remainder mark must be sold “Used, Like New,” not “New.” This seemed to clarify things. But 98 percent of sellers handling remainders still list them as “New” even now, and as far as I know, Amazon doesn’t enforce this.
However, since the advent of FBA there’s been a special advantage to listing books as “Like New” instead of “New.” That’s because of the special box that show FBA listings on the main detail page. For instance, there’s a “good” used copy available for this book:
http://www.amazon.com/eBay-Listings-That-Dummies-Computers/dp/0471789127/
From my experience, lots of people will buy that FBA copy in used condition before they’ll buy a cheaper “new” copy simply because the “used” one is the first thing they see, and that’s what some people buy. Some people — millions of buyers — still don’t know how to click through to shop on Amazon’s Marketplace.
Amazon has been doing this for FBA listings for about two years, so they must feel it’s a worthwhile policy.
Yes, most remainders will have a mark, and a certain percentage of people complain about them and leave negative feedback, regardless of whether the remainder mark was disclosed, how it was described, or even whether the book was listed “Used, Like New” or “New.” Remainders are “bargains” and, just like “penny books” they attract more than their share of difficult customers.
You might think that someone getting a like-new book for a ridiculously low price wouldn’t have much to complain about, but they often do. They’ll say the book smells funny. A page was bent. Shipping costs too much. They didn’t like the ending. It never ends…
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5 Comments
I believe you are providing your readers with bad information with this.
Books that are not new and have remainder marks should never be listed as New. This is regardless of what other sellers do and what Amazon enforces. Actually, Amazon does enforce this, even if only selectively. I purchased a lot from [name deleted] and they sent them to my account as New even though they had remainder marks. The entire shipment was flagged as unfilfillable. I had to pay to have them returned to me, reprocessed and labeled, and sent back to Amazon. Thankfully there was no action taken against me as a seller by Amazon and we stopped purchasing from [that vendor].
The Amazon rules are there to ensure a great buying experience. When those rules are broken, the buying experience suffers. You even noted this in your article about the bad feedback received. This is not an acceptable practice. You cannot break rules and just put up with a little fallout. These buyers have now had a poor buying experience on Amazon and this may prevent them from shopping on Amazon again. This hurts Amazon and it hurts OTHER SELLERS who are following the rules. Amazon is not eBay where sellers can just do what they want, make a few customers mad, and not expect eBay to actually do anything about it. Amazon will do something ab out and their actions can be pretty drastic sometimes including permanent removal of seller privileges.
I am writing this to you for the sake of your readers and your credibility. Users who break Amazon’s rules and have their accounts put on probation or even kicked off of Amazon will not be able to use the excuse that Steve Weber said it was OK.
Thank you, Chris, I think your comments are right on target.
I wasn’t trying to give the impression that I condone or encourage anyone (including me) to break Amazon’s rules. But apparently I did so, inadvertently.
I never miss a chance to be critical of Amazon, but I’m also a big fan because I’ve earned my living there for a decade, and bought a heck of a lot of stuff from them. Overall, I think they’ve done a great job of protecting the customer experience while allowing a vibrant third-party marketplace, and that’s why they’ve prospered while other Web marketplaces have declined.
MANN, OH, MANN, do I agree with the WHOLE SITE SUFFERS by those who bend the rules. I have actually taken the time to write to other resellers who have an ex-library as a NEW or LIKE NEW book. HOW can that be? THEY were certainly read, and even if they were never read, they were handled (a lot!).
I have a great feedback. It is because even though it sometimes costs me a few dollars to be at the top of the first page when my like new copy has to beat out an acceptable copy. I know from experience: it you aren’t in the first three or so, the human eye won’t see it when they ‘glance down’ in their buying. FIRST page, first few, or you may never get noticed.
That is the reality. MOST buyers feel as I have always felt as a reader. THE WORDS ARE THE SAME no matter the condition. Saying this, however, I don’t enjoy buying books myself from vendors that out and out LIE about condition.
So, the bending of the rules, is lying. Plain and simple. I don’t like poor packing either. IF you have a NEW book but it arrives to me with squashed corners from no backing, well, it’s NO LONGER new. THIS even happens, or especially happens, when Amazon is the vendor for the reseller. A LOT, actually. So, I think a bit about buying the second new line under the description. Not the red circle new, but the line new.
Okay, now I’m done. I’m savoring my last twenty feedbacks. Happy customers are our mission. It’s worth a few dollars to me. I’ve never had a negative. I like that a lot!!!
BTW: Steve: Happy/Prosperous 2012 to you and yours!
Debbie
A book with a remainder mark and no other defect should be sold as “Like New” or as “Very Good” if there is shelfwear. I would describe it as “Remainer mark otherwise Like New.” Many buyers will not recognize a remainder mark, but it is dishonest to sell it without mentioning it. If a buyer gets a book with a
described as “New” and finds any kind of mark on it, you are asking for unfavourable coments or even a return.
A few weeks ago I got a book back from a customer with no comments and no rating. I don’t know why he wanted to return it, but I just posted a full refund. It’s cheaper in the long run that way.
Sometimes Amazon themselves sell remainders, they list them as a separate version of the book called “bargain”.